SyntaxBoom

Competition (1) - The Type-In Trial Result

All entries are in, they are located in this thread since SMF has such an arsey way of moving posts:

https://www.syntaxboom.com/forum/index.php?topic=65.0

Polling is now finished and the winner is...

A tie between Matty and Naughty Alien!

Double trouble! ;) teehehehe :P

Congrats to the pair of them, and me and JD hope you enjoy drinking your fave brew from our ever so beautiful mugs! Wahooo :D

Thank you everyone that entered, and all those that took part in the polling, much appreciated!

Dabz

For those who don't have AGK then they can download my entry Qubeoids (Asteroids) (https://www.syntaxbomb.com/Qube/Qubeoids.zip) which is compiled for Windows and MacOS.

If you have MacOS then also included is the excellent and handy 'Sentinel' app. Simply drag and drop any unsigned app onto it and it'll then play nice with Apple's Gatekeeper system. Unsigned apps usually present themselves with that glorious popup window saying "This app is damaged, blah blah blah".

Polling is now closed... Results are above! :)

Dabz

It was an enjoyable competition. Something that could be done pretty quickly in a few short coding sessions.

It's over :o says "Voting closes: Aug 11, 2025, 06:14 AM". Time travel I tell ya, time travel.

The bending of rules is worse than over at SB ;D. Didn't it say that the closer to a game the better and that one users could type in?. Ended up with the winners being a none game and one that requires an external engine most have never heard of :P

Love it ;D

@Qube

Twisty arse, that's age you know! :P

Dabz

Quote from: Qube on Aug 09, 2025, 12:52 AMIt's over :o says "Voting closes: Aug 11, 2025, 06:14 AM". Time travel I tell ya, time travel.

It's not time travel. It's a good night out that causes people to lose a few days.

LMAO @ Qube.  :D

That was an interesting comp, got kinda sideways a little but was definitely worth it.

@mrmediamanx

I was never good at this sorta thing... I'll let yous decide what's what next time, and, will provide the prize of our gloriously, fantastic, fully authentic, made from the finest clay a generic mug factory uses on it's billions of generic wares! :P

Dabz

Id like to see a RETRO REMAKE Competition were we we create games that we liked from our 80's days. I would say keep it like the original but better!  ::)

There are simply thousands to choose from.

It could even be called Syntax Boom "RETRO REMAKES"

Now theres an idea!?  8) 

@ Baggey, I think SyntaxBomb comps tried to keep away from IP problems eg) using anything Pacman looking. Because some modern games are still using the pacman character today.

If you change them enough you should be ok, but then you could lose some of the 'magic' that those games had. It's a fine line I feel.

Yep, it's a massive grey area, overcook the remake, be it graphical, naming convention or even down to tags for search, your opening yourself up.

I mean, it all depends on who owns the IP... Atari, Hasbro etc etc they are just hunters for IP infringement.

Even games on the likes of abandoned sites are'nt safe, just because they are "abandoned" doesnt mean anyone has a right to treat them as public domain, maybe such sites do have permission to distribute them.

The best bet, but still not 100% safe is some older games (like Doom, Descent, or Command & Conquer) have had their source code released, making remakes legally viable, but there will probably be licenses attached which should be noted... It's all about research.

8bit games may be a bit trickier, but I've just looked and found the following:

Prince of Persia.
Elite
Manic Miner
Jet Set Willy
Beneath a Steel Sky
King's Quest I
C-Dogs
Blades of Exile
3D Monster Maze

There "should" be no harm remaking these as source has been released for them, but again, research required to be sure, licenses should be noted and respected.

Dabz

I am totally naive to what you guys are talking about. But imagine a world.

I invented the color Red, Green, Blue. So no one else is allowed to use them!?  :-X

I invented a wheel. So no one else is allowed to use or create one!?  :-X

I invented the Keyboard. No one else is allowed to make one!?  :-X

I drew a Pacman. But wait some one else did 50 Years ago. But its my Pacman. I just drew it.

This is the Start of Killing invention, Creativity and Fun.

Just Look at Germany's Copyright Laws. There F++k$$g Mental!?  ::)

I Think the World is becoming a very crazy place!?

QuoteI invented the color Red, Green, Blue. So no else is allowed to use them!?

While companies cannot own or trade a colour, but they can trademark a "hue", take coca cola, noone can use that specific shade... Unreal, but very true.

It doesnt just stop there, threads on bolts can be propriety! :/

It's all mental, but there we are! :D

Dabz

If I remember when it comes to trademarks. In the U.K. you cannot trademark any name or individual English words. Only unique and made up logos such as Amstrad, or words in a unique colour or style.

But there is a caveat that big companies exploit. The food chain McDonald's will go after anyone who just uses the the name McDonald's, under "Using a registered trademark, or a confusingly similar mark, without permission for the same or similar goods or services is considered infringement". Even though the company using the name McDonald's has bugger all to do with the food industry.

Though Apple got a taste of it's own medicine when they released the iPhone in Mexico. The name was too similar sounding to a telecommunication service IFone, who sued Apple for infringement. The court in Mexico sided with IFone, who had registered the trademark in 2003, four years before Apple released the iPhone.

For Apple to sell the iPhone in Mexico, they have to pay 40% for any iPhone services to iFone in Mexico.

In the end legislation is created by people that haven't got a clue, or are easily swayed by bits of paper, or plastic, stuffed into brown paper envelopes.

Quote from: Baggey on Aug 11, 2025, 04:41 PMI Think the World is becoming a very crazy place!?

I worked that out when I was fifteen back in the 1980s. And it's the people in it that caused it by having a narrow views and self interest. Even as a naive fifteen year old, I could workout what was going to happen with privatisation and the political ideologies of the "Trickle down economy". Those that cannot compete get bought out by a more successful competitor. Until you end up with just a few that basically take massive loans while giving share holders big payouts, find loop wholes in the law to work as a cartel, and avoid paying taxes, and expect the tax payer to bail them out.

I even knew that some of my previous employers was going to go under before they did. After I left school. My first employer went under and, you could say that his political views and with his business reliant on the patrons of mining town kind of clashed (you need to be a resident of the U.K. and have some understanding of the politics of the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s to figure why). The last employer went under because of bad decisions, which I could tell with the amount and types of jobs they were taking on. And when you are the only one on site that should have had at least four or more people working on it. You tend to get to hear of it, when they cannot contact the employers.

You can pick any point in recorded history where self interest has ended up causing a society or a civilisation to collapse. Possibly the best known and recorded is what led to the rise and fall of the Roman Republic.

But it does seem a bit heavy handed when you're talking about 40 year old games you're writing as a bit of fun!  ???

I say run the competition anyway, just don't tip off anybody here what you're writing, and all post at the closing date! Nobody is going to be asked to take anything down the nano second people post their entries lol.  :D

Quote from: Steve Elliott on Aug 12, 2025, 07:34 PMBut it does seem a bit heavy handed when you're talking about 40 year old games you're writing as a bit of fun!

I did read somewhere that the big companies tried to go after a number of clones under the copyright law. And if I remember they actually lost. Copyright only protects the expression of an idea, but not the idea it's self. Programming algorithms though come under patents if they have been submitted.

In the end. Someone somewhere will own that software. If an individual wrote a game type-in that was published in a magazine. And depending on the country, the author has the copyright for their entire life, plus their estate 70 years after their death. Copyright ownership can get a bit complicated depending who is involved and the type of medium that is copyrighted.

And the reason why they are heavy handed, is that they may decided to release that game in the future on another platform if they think that there is some money to be made from it. All you have to do is look at the games originally released by Ashby Computers and Graphics Ltd, founded by the Stamper Brothers, better known by the trade name of Ultimate Play the Game. US Gold bought a big stake and became the owners (and it showed with the poor quality of the games released by US Gold under the Ultimate label). The Ultimate Play the Game rights were bought by a company known as Rare Limited, which was again founded by the Stamper Brothers. And guess which company now owns Rare Limited and all the logos etc..... Microsoft, which released those games as a compilation on the XBox One.

It's why they rehash really old movies/cartoons as well, keep that IP going, some slide away from that...

"We'll be friends forever, won't we, Pooh?" asked Piglet. "Even longer," said Pooh. "Especially once we're in the public domain."

More so in the US like, where he is officially PD, here in the UK we have to wait longer.

Dabz

Quote from: Dabzy on Aug 13, 2025, 04:39 AMIt's why they rehash really old movies/cartoons as well, keep that IP going, some slide away from that...

A lot of the rehash shite is that for a studio to keep the licencing rights to use someones IP. They have to make a movie in a certain time period, else they lose the licencing rights. I think the best know for this is the 1994 film Fantastic Four.

Quote from: Dabzy on Aug 13, 2025, 04:39 AM"We'll be friends forever, won't we, Pooh?" asked Piglet. "Even longer," said Pooh. "Especially once we're in the public domain."

More so in the US like, where he is officially PD, here in the UK we have to wait longer.

Actually it's a bit more complicated. The original stories are PD in the U.S.A, and will be in the U.K. in the 2027. But the illustrations are a separate copyright and would be PD for another 22 years. And then there the changes that Disney made.

Who the F**k really cares. If your doing something for a bit of fun research and your not making any money from it. What is the PROBLEM!  ::)

Lets get some interesting comps happening! Consider it a Tribute to the original.

Alright i might of gained a MUG!  :D

Baggey

Quote from: Baggey on Aug 14, 2025, 06:32 PMWho the F**k really cares. If your doing something for a bit of fun research and your not making any money from it. What is the PROBLEM!  ::)

Lets get some interesting comps happening! Consider it a Tribute to the original.

Quote from: Baggey on Aug 11, 2025, 04:41 PMI am totally naive to what you guys are talking about.

All I can say is that you are right about being navie of why shouldn't do it. And calling it a tribute to the original with lots of disclaimers or whatever will not prevent legal issues.

If you want one good example of why you should stay away from other IP's. I'll just use the one company name.... 'Nintendo'. To my knowledge, there has never been a full game play video of any Nintendo game on YouTube, or if there was; it wasn't up for long. Oh and they issue a take down notices for any unauthorised use of any of their IP's. A couple of good examples of this is using their firmware ROMs for emulators. They also tried to get any emulators of their hardware include, but I believe the courts threw that out. And there's the remake of Metrodroid 2 AM2R (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AM2R). Nintendo eventually did release an updated version of that game.

And it's not just videos and ROMs where they issue take down notices. They also issue these for any originally scanned game guides for their IP's. They more than likely do this for other legal reasons, and not just because it uses any of their IP's.

The first lesson Nintendo learned was to protect their IP's by any means when Universal took them to court in the U.S.A. for the game Donkey Kong (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_City_Studios,_Inc._v._Nintendo_Co.,_Ltd.) when it was released. You need to read the articles on the case to get the full picture.

There are quite a few YouTube videos that go into Nintendo and their over protectiveness of their IP's.

The thing is it is crap... Ultimately, they are dumping and chasing the type of people who, basically, setup the whole industry all them years ago.

If it wasnt for "bedroom" coders tinkering away, making little things, exploring micros etc showing that they are'nt just there for office work and can be fun, would the industry be the size it is, would people come through with the skills and knowledge that created all the classics, IP's that we know and love, and, heck, in some cases, they still sell.

As an example, Jordan Mechner who created Prince of Persia on the Apple II, he wrote Karateka while still a student, but he wasnt just coding anything, he was implementing techniques such as rotoscoping animation... He was a trail blazer.

Starting out all from his dorm bedroom!

And there is many more like this as well, and that is the sad part of it all.

Instead of threatening people with legal shit, give the buggers a job/apprenticeship because they obviously have some talent, especially if the remake is as good as whatever the original is.

Dabz

nothing bad will happen, as long as you don't try to sell it.

fan games have existed for years...

you guys are paranoid...

Quote from: Jackdaw on Aug 15, 2025, 01:18 AMI'll just use the one company name.... 'Nintendo'. To my knowledge, there has never been a full game play video of any Nintendo game on YouTube, or if there was; it wasn't up for long.

after a quick search :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT3AaQ77ges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfUoDfnH9ew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcCFAUBtNbc
🧐😏

Quote from: Dabzy on Aug 15, 2025, 06:20 AMThe thing is it is crap... Ultimately, they are dumping and chasing the type of people who, basically, setup the whole industry all them years ago.

Well companies like Nintendo and Sega didn't start out as bedroom coders. They saw an opportunity and branched out into the arcade video industry. Nintendo originally originally produced playing cards, while Sega produced slot machines and Jukeboxes.

Sonic the Hedgehog IP is a bit of a strange affair. Sega were just like Nintendo, until they were bought by Sammy. Sammy used the Sega logo an Sonic IP to make their business a little more palatable with them being the producers of Pachinko (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachinko) machines. Now that Sonic is starting to be a bit more profitable, you should expect that Sega Sammy Holding will be a bit more stringent of that IP, especially after a legal battles with Ken Penders (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Penders) over the comic of Sonic the Hedgehog.

You can thank Accolade and Sega's legal battle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade) to stop Accolade from producing their own compatible titles for the Sega Genesis. This opened up the game development to third parties. This had the unexpected side effect of partially protecting the emulation scene from the likes of Nintendo. Nintendo would rather not have to go to court again and lose, and end up giving more legal precedent to emulators.

anyway i don't find it interesting to make only a 'remake' version, i find it more interesting to make an 'inspired from' version, a 'side story' version, a 'parody' version.

It's so frustrating. BlitzMax and before that something like STOS for the Atari ST came with code and games that showed off it's capabilities. And they did that with versions of classic games like Arkanoid/Breakout.

If a computer language was introduced in the same way that STOS, GFA BASIC, Fast BASIC and others were today, how would they actually show off the game based features? It's not like code for Cyberpunk 2077. Just simple games to demonstrate sprites and such.

Quote from: RemiD on Aug 15, 2025, 10:45 AM

Quote from: Jackdaw on Aug 15, 2025, 01:18 AMI'll just use the one company name.... 'Nintendo'. To my knowledge, there has never been a full game play video of any Nintendo game on YouTube, or if there was; it wasn't up for long.

after a quick search :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT3AaQ77ges
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfUoDfnH9ew
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcCFAUBtNbc
🧐😏

Well I did a bit of checking. It looks like Nintendo went a bit soft after November 2018. They will still issue a take down notice if you don't follow their guide lines (https://www.nintendo.co.jp/networkservice_guideline/en/index.html). Before that they would either issue take down notices, or outright claim any revenue made, or through their Nintendo Creator Program where they would take a cut out of any revenue made.

@Dabzy One of the things I was thinking of if and when the next competition is held. That it should be written in only the one language. I was thinking that it could be java with libGDX, but BBC SDL may be a better choice.

@Jackdaw - Now that, is a very good idea me auld fruit! :)

Dabz

Oh ok, so we only have to use the language *you* choose. No thanks lol.  :o

Just supply an exe with media and write it in whatever language you like!

Well, I think it's a good idea, because a) I didnt know that existed and b) I've never used BBC Basic in a very very long time...

The amount of break times I spent tinkering with it at school (Before they were replaced with the Archimedes) was proper shocking! :D lol

But, if people are'nt keen, then fair play, nothing wrong with floating idea's up in the air, taking into consideration, my last attempt at a competition was, somewhat, hammered! :D hehehe

If it's a "Any language" compo, then float idea's up for themes or limitations etc etc

Dabz

BBC BASIC is known and respected for being very capable and efficient. Back in the day I was so impressed and at the same time dissapointed at the benchmarks for my ZX Spectrum BASIC in comparison. Sir Clive cutting corners again!

For me personally I only knew 2 mates that had BBC Micros, their parents weren't exactly poor lol. I'm a bit older so they weren't in our school (Research Machines instead). Later I owned an Archimedes (with BBC BASIC) but used C instead.

Today thanks to Ebay I have both a BBC Micro and an Archimedes (sold my Arch some time ago). But I have no reason to return to BASIC.

Today there are soo many computer languages (and engines and libs) that some people do not have installed on their computer! Dabz just don't make it about installing and learning a language before you even write anything ffs mate lol!  :o

Like I said, just let people supply an exe that runs on Windows at least and they can supply versions for Mac and Linux if they want. Simples.

QuoteToday there are soo many computer languages (and engines and libs) that some people do not have installed on their computer! Dabz just don't make it about installing and learning a language before you even write anything ffs mate lol!  :o

I only said it was a very good idea, I like it... Nothing wrong with that?

And, like I said at the end of the last competition, you's will be deciding amongst yourselves, I'll be taking a step back on that front, doesnt and shouldnt stop me from having a view on ideas from anyone though.

Dabz

I'm just not going to install software I will never use again, learn the language/lib and then try and write something in it.

And the main point is not everybody will either. So who will judge the competition if not many can actually run the program?!

Just supply an exe, if people want to try out a new language or lib then good on them, but people need to be able to see the program running.

Just saying the last competition was the same mate, some random languages and libs were used and not everybody could actually run them. Just supply an exe and opinions do not matter.

Quote from: Steve Elliott on Aug 19, 2025, 05:41 PMI'm just not going to install software I will never use again, learn the language/lib and then try and write something in it.

And the main point is not everybody will either. So who will judge the competition if not many can actually run the program?!

Just supply an exe, if people want to try out a new language or lib then good on them, but people need to be able to see the program running.

Calm down sausage, JackDaws post was a suggestion, idea and I liked it... What is the big deal? ???

You have stated your not keen, which is fair enough... How about suggesting something, you know, all you could of done is posted "Well, how about just a plain old GameJam?" or "Halloween is coming, so how about the theme is Halloween, and the deal line should be All Hallows' Eve"

How about trying that angle, people might get on board with such a thing, you know, instead of arguing over something which isnt anything?

Dabz

I remember one of the last copmo's over at the old forum.

QUBE made a karate type saga game and XERRA did a remake of a VIC20 game.

What was wrong with those?

I mean all this Copyright infingement crap that's going on! Boils my P&&S!

Ive yet to finish my Alien DropOUT which is nearly 40 Years old now.

My idea would be to do a Remake like  ::)

Maybe limit it to one style of game. So we can see how well it compares to the original and little tweaks added. Just saying like.

I think BBC SDL does do .exe's for windows? Id be sticking to BlitmaxNG though :D

Kind Regards Baggey

The copyright thing is indeed a nuisance, but if it is to be a remake one and that's what people want to do, there is workarounds for such a thing.

I've already been spanked off Atari lawyers with a C&D, and had an app taken off Google Play, just because it had "Asteroid" in the title, but it wasn't actually a clone... It was just because I used a word and the game was vector based... Still, it's not nice when that happens, and I havent got the means or will to challenge that, I just had to accept it as a bad job.

But if anyone was going to make an souped up Asteroid clone, great, I love Asteroids and the likes, like Thrust...

Okay, old games from the 80's might not get as much attention, some do of course, but the majority don't, but you do have to try not to draw attention, so if it's an Asteroids clone, just don't name the bugger Asteroids! :D

Dabz

Quote from: Dabzy on Aug 19, 2025, 06:30 PMI've already been spanked off Atari lawyers with a C&D, and had an app taken off Google Play, just because it had "Asteroid" in the title, but it wasn't actually a clone... It was just because I used a word and the game was vector based... Still, it's not nice when that happens, and I havent got the means or will to challenge that, I just had to accept it as a bad job.

I know that feeling. Had to take down my own version from my own website when I had one.

I'm perfectly calm lol, text online is not a good way to judge somebody - no matter how many mates or emojis I add.  ::)

But I'm just frustrated that you can't understand why having people supply random language code maybe with a lib to download is a bad idea in a competition.

Let people enter COBOL or Pascal or Lisp programs. But nobody will be able to judge it - because they can't run it. A working program is the only sensible option.

Just get away from the language you use and we can throw in some suggestions on what the theme should be.

Yeah Atari are releasing old software titles on replica consoles to this day so I can see why they chased you off Dabz.

As an example with Defender back then, well Dropzone was allowed! And I've seen a modern version from somebody we know and no problems. It seems if you make a 'mash-up' of several titles you should be ok.

So that would be my suggestion a 'Mash-up' competition, where you take 2 or more games and make a version that was a mash-up of them.  :)

And supply an exe so we can run it.

Quote from: Dabzy on Aug 19, 2025, 06:30 PMThe copyright thing is indeed a nuisance, but if it is to be a remake one and that's what people want to do, there is workarounds for such a thing.

I've already been spanked off Atari lawyers with a C&D, and had an app taken off Google Play, just because it had "Asteroid" in the title, but it wasn't actually a clone... It was just because I used a word and the game was vector based... Still, it's not nice when that happens, and I havent got the means or will to challenge that, I just had to accept it as a bad job.

But if anyone was going to make an souped up Asteroid clone, great, I love Asteroids and the likes, like Thrust...

Okay, old games from the 80's might not get as much attention, some do of course, but the majority don't, but you do have to try not to draw attention, so if it's an Asteroids clone, just don't name the bugger Asteroids! :D

Dabz

You used Asteroids 5 time's. Damm ive used it as well. I would of changed the name to Asteroidss.  ::)

Quote from: Steve Elliott on Aug 19, 2025, 07:08 PMI'm perfectly calm lol, text online is not a good way to judge somebody - no matter how many mates or emojis I add.  ::)

But I'm just frustrated that you can't understand why having people supply random language code maybe with a lib to download is a bad idea in a competition.

Let people enter COBOL or Pascal or Lisp programs. But nobody will be able to judge it - because they can't run it. A working program is the only sensible option.

Just get away from the language you use and we can throw in some suggestions on what the theme should be.

I think random language code is alright. I think the idea was to see how they made or achieved the program. And the only way to know if they did it. Was to count the words in the code. I think that was the point.

Writing in any language i think is upto the programmer.

I feel though it should be said "What language you used and what engines you used to cheat with" ::) I totally agree with the .exe but try and send one these days!? ???

So as STEVE says lets get on withe the game theme to be remade.

If the games in the compo get asked to be taken down in the name of research and study.

Will slap a big banner up saying competition removed because of self righteous idiotic morans. With nothing better else todo.

games are set in Space are you allowed that.

games have land are you allowed that.

games may have asteroids floating around.

games have enemys and if there from galaxya there going to be called Galaxians!  >:(

The world is getting to crazy and someone needs to stand up! Ill always look like im sitting down though! :o

Baggey

just make a similar game with a similar world / things / entities, similar scenario, similar gameplay, similar graphics, similar sounds, but all your creations are original and different enough (to not be qualified as a copy), with a different title, (like my 'alien dropout' version is, not like your 'alien dropout' is, Baggey) and you will have 0 problem with copyright infringement...

Quote from: Baggey on Aug 19, 2025, 06:02 PMQUBE made a karate type saga game

International Kung-Fu+ Definitely in no way a complete ripoff of IK+ ;D  but a homage 8) - It didn't have the bouncy balls mini game or different backgrounds (ran out of time).

At SB the comp entries were kept simple whereby the bare minimum was a Windows exe or web based, that way most, if not all can access your entry. Mac, Linux or your high end fridge freezers were optional platforms if you wanted to include those.

The source code comp was a great idea but with us lot you need to spell out the rules, nail down what can and can't be done and punish those who don't comply with banishment into the deepest darkest depths of hell :o

The next comp could be something as easy as an "80's retro remakes" comp. Loads to choose from and keeps it simple, just change the name of the game and don't use copyright material.

How about we do a p[beep] up in a brewery... I'd be 10/10 for that! ;) hehehe

I've never been any good for that sort of stuff, I'll admit, so... What we'll do, is, get ideas in, I'll shove up a poll, the most popular one becomes the competition, and then yous can iron the details... That way I can do a shaggy when something is questioned, as in... "Wasnt me"! :P

;)

Dabz

Quote from: Dabzy on Aug 20, 2025, 06:21 PMI'll shove up a poll, the most popular one becomes the competition, and then yous can iron the details...

Oh gawd! don't leave it up to the community, they'll just debate for a zillion years, nothing will get done, no one will agree and tumbleweeds will roll by.

Get ChatGPT to whip up a list of rules for game comps, something you can reuse.

Any-hoot, I'm gonna keep my gob shut now before I start getting funny looks from the dodgy geezers at the back.

Hahaha, so if it all goes boobies up, I can blame Skynet and send the T1000's in...

Perfect!  8) hehehe

;)

Dabz